In August 2019, it was announced that Aleksandar Hemon, the hit writer who moved from a war-ravaged Sarajevo in 1995 to make America his own, had written the script for the fourth Matrix movie to start production in 2020. It is unclear how the corona pandemic will impact filming, but what is certain is that the current global situation feels like a story straight out of this early 2000s sci-fi classic. It is to this genre that perhaps we need to turn to find analogies for where we stand today - politically, mentally and physically. Maybe it is to literature that we must turn to heal the inside and the outside? Editor, writer and journalist John Freeman also outlined in his 2019 book Dictionary of Undoing strategies for survival in our contemporary political climate. Appropriately enough, these two strategists meet digitally for conversation.